I know that most people here are referring to US law when they speak of limiting liability and that is why Watchtower would want to do this with COs. And of course other countries have other laws and requirements and some may not even recognize as a contractor and it may not limit liability at all. But let's take the US, and again there is variety depending on states, but this would not necessarily limit liability to CCJW. And the reason I say CCJW is because that is the corporation that Elders and congregations operate under, not under WBTSPA or WBTSNY. There was a lawsuit in Missippi or Alabama where the Appeals Court ruled that the estate of a person who died at a Jehovah's Witnesses Convention could not sue WBTSPA or WBTSNY for negligence, but could only sue CCJW, if the civil action would be successful is a different matter. But let's take limiting liability for CCJW, again sometimes we tend to think that the law is very cut and dry, but it is not. There are a ton of issues that courts take into account when it comes to agents and the principal. If the Governing Body lets loose the COs they are still an agent of CCJW and the principals in cases like Moradi v Marsh Inc. (2013) 219 Cal.App.4th 886,894, that gives the standards, at least in California, of when the principal is liable for the activities of the agent. So that would not necessarily limit the liability of CCJW if they don't tell COs what to do all the time.
Richard Oliver
JoinedPosts by Richard Oliver
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58
Mexico branch......Now closing!!!
by krismalone ina circuit overseer friend of mine serving in latin america called me today to say hi.
i asked him what's new and he dropped the news that they have received notification that the branch in mexico will be closing!!
this branch also called the central american branch (although located in mexico) oversees all of mexico's 800,000+ publishers plus all 7 countries of central america of over 100,000 publishers.
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38
If the WT is a "money making machine"...who gets the money?
by NikL ini've seen claims over the years that wt is in the real estate, book publishing business and is a for profit enterprise at it's core.. can those of you that believe this to be the case tell me who benefits from all this wealth?.
the governing body lives in relatively humble conditions no?.
i've been curious about this for a while.
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Richard Oliver
Joe134
I do know up in Patterson, each GB member does have a room up there because they have to teach classes enough so they keep some personal items up in Patterson as well. But those rooms were guests rooms when the GB member was not using them. There was an addition to the closet, that was locked off so you couldn't go through their clothes, but the furnishings and finishes were just as any other guest room.
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207
Honest Questions About Child Abuse
by Richard Oliver ini have two honest questions for everyone here.
i understand that most here want retribution from the courts against watchtower for child abuse allegations.
but let us take away the instances where someone was accused of child abuse and then later put back into a position of authority, such as an elder or an ms. let us just take the cases where a regular publisher or even an appointed person, with no previous accusation of child abuse has come up against that person.
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Richard Oliver
Honestly, I really doubt that even if Watchtower come out tomorrow and apologize for this and say that they will no longer practice the 2 witness rule, inform all members of every person ever accused of sexual assault and do everything else that the people on this site want, that it would be enough for you. Let's face it, a lot of people on here wouldn't be happy unless Watchtower is ended. So you have to ask yourself are you more concerned with if Watchtower is in existence or not or the protection of children. Honestly, I think if a lot of people on here actually thought about it, it would be the former rather than the later.
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12
What is the vow of poverty
by Jafox ini was told by someone that in 2007 two members of the branch committee in greece were removed because they breached the vow of poverty.
the matter was over a small amount, in the range of a few hundred euro.
is there a copy of this vow available and how would this be applied here?
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Richard Oliver
When they entered special full time service, they did. The vow, at least in the US, only applies to income derived from work. Income derived from retirement, investment or other means does not violate the vow.
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12
What is the vow of poverty
by Jafox ini was told by someone that in 2007 two members of the branch committee in greece were removed because they breached the vow of poverty.
the matter was over a small amount, in the range of a few hundred euro.
is there a copy of this vow available and how would this be applied here?
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Richard Oliver
The vow is mostly used so that everyone who enter the order knows what the responsibilities are towards that order. I don't get why so many people on this site is so irritated to this vow. The people who sign it is free to sign it or not, they are of majority age and have read it and agreed to it. No one forces anyone to enter into this vow, if someone doesn't want to they are free to do so, they just won't be in special full time service.
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207
Honest Questions About Child Abuse
by Richard Oliver ini have two honest questions for everyone here.
i understand that most here want retribution from the courts against watchtower for child abuse allegations.
but let us take away the instances where someone was accused of child abuse and then later put back into a position of authority, such as an elder or an ms. let us just take the cases where a regular publisher or even an appointed person, with no previous accusation of child abuse has come up against that person.
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Richard Oliver
The report submitted by the ARC does not question her ability as an Expert Witness. They just dismissed her findings in whole. Again they are politicians who don't want to look to be to lax on things that will lose them support.
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207
Honest Questions About Child Abuse
by Richard Oliver ini have two honest questions for everyone here.
i understand that most here want retribution from the courts against watchtower for child abuse allegations.
but let us take away the instances where someone was accused of child abuse and then later put back into a position of authority, such as an elder or an ms. let us just take the cases where a regular publisher or even an appointed person, with no previous accusation of child abuse has come up against that person.
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Richard Oliver
So you feel that she is not an expert for what reason. Because she holds a Masters and Ph.D. in Social Work. That she has conducted more that 1800 root cause investigations into institutions and child abuse. That she has worked in 11 countries or regions around the world. That no other expert filed any testimony that contradicted her testimony. Or is it because she did not cow-tow to the ARC counsel of assertions.
BTW. The ARC counsel did not question her ability as an expert witness. They just dismissed her findings off hand.
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207
Honest Questions About Child Abuse
by Richard Oliver ini have two honest questions for everyone here.
i understand that most here want retribution from the courts against watchtower for child abuse allegations.
but let us take away the instances where someone was accused of child abuse and then later put back into a position of authority, such as an elder or an ms. let us just take the cases where a regular publisher or even an appointed person, with no previous accusation of child abuse has come up against that person.
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Richard Oliver
Please explain to me in the ARC transcript where the due process is? Explain where the cross-examination of witnesses is? Show me where Watchtower was able to present evidence and their own witnesses? In a court of law an expert witness' testimony can be given as much or as little weight as a jury member deems but cannot be and is not just dismissed off hand because that expert witness is paid by one side or the other, that is how expert witnesses work. -
207
Honest Questions About Child Abuse
by Richard Oliver ini have two honest questions for everyone here.
i understand that most here want retribution from the courts against watchtower for child abuse allegations.
but let us take away the instances where someone was accused of child abuse and then later put back into a position of authority, such as an elder or an ms. let us just take the cases where a regular publisher or even an appointed person, with no previous accusation of child abuse has come up against that person.
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Richard Oliver
Outlaw. Again you're trying to over simplify things. First of all the ARC is a group of politicians and not a court of law. There is no due process as recognized by any government. What evidence was Watchtower able to present other than one expert witnesses that the Commission dismissed off hand because her testimony did not conform to their findings. No cross-examination of any witnesses, no rules of evidence, any response given by Watchtower was immediately dismissed by the commission again because it did not conform to what they wanted.
Second, you keep claiming that Watchtower prevents people from telling the police. Is there any actual evidence of that other than the testimony in the ARC or from other witnesses in other courts? Is there any objective evidence? The reason I say this is because even eyewitness testimony has proven to be so unreliable that even the Illinois Supreme Court has opened up the door that there has to be other evidence in a criminal trial than just an eyewitness testimony. Also, it is so hard to prove a negative especially to people on this forum that don't care what other evidence is given. There is an example that people use to prove how hard it is to prove a negative. Can you prove to me that you never read a book? No, you can't prove that ever because how can you. In similar fashion How do you want watchtower to prove that they never told people not to go to the police?
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207
Honest Questions About Child Abuse
by Richard Oliver ini have two honest questions for everyone here.
i understand that most here want retribution from the courts against watchtower for child abuse allegations.
but let us take away the instances where someone was accused of child abuse and then later put back into a position of authority, such as an elder or an ms. let us just take the cases where a regular publisher or even an appointed person, with no previous accusation of child abuse has come up against that person.
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Richard Oliver
Giordano. That is my point. We sometimes want the law to be cut and dry especially for such a horrific event such as child abuse, but it is not. There are a number of things that allows people to get away with it, within the confines of the law. As I stated earlier if a country has a low age of consent, there is nothing that law enforcement can do. In this case in Lousiana, there is nothing that a prosecutor or law enforcement official can do, they are obeying the legal requirements of the land in which they live. Again is it moral? No. But are they barred from doing anything more? Yes.